Nostalgia Bomb Incoming

[Makron]

Originally was going to post this in another thread, but thought that it had been derailed enough.
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Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my. Greetings you space bums.

I miss the passion and trolling in these forums, one of the greatest sources of entertainment back when I played regularly. It's a really sad and monumental loss that we could never recover the old forum archives, there were some really nice gems buried in there.

Speaking of passion...Detector I envy the passion you had about dueling, but you were years too late bro. There was nobody left to give a flying fuck about anything duel-related, beyond a few players. Sure it was fun to watch a few noteworthy names or anyone above average-skill duel each other (probably because it was so fucking rare to see), but the drive to duel, or be the best, or win the most, or whatever you want to call it left almost every single player I could think of. I know mypassion about it died waaaaaaay before I ended up on RH and my skill automatically went downhill with it in the duelbox, as my attention went towards practising for league.

So, with that being said, your accomplishment of being the #1 rated player in DTs comes with a grain of salt. While it's something to be proud of, as I'm sure you put honest effort into achieving it, it's already been mentioned by temb that with a lot of time anyone can achieve that because it just rates you by amount of wins. If other stats were to be thrown in there, say, like how many times you win vs certain people, or how many DTs you win when x y z players participate, etc etc, then you could start feeling good about the #1 spot. But until then it's just like WoW, with enough time everyone can get epic.

Since it's been a recurring theme, I'll post my 'top8' duelers list with as little ego as I can muster.
This is primarily based off of duelers I've watch vs other top form players, and/or duelers I've faced at my peak or near it. Obviously, there are going to be names missing from here that probably should end up in the last two slots, but I don't have recollection of them anymore or probably never faced them in their prime.

In no particular order:

Bjorn
Butcher
Sniper_25
ossi
esidebob
Beastie
Makron
Troilus

kemi and Xiver might belong on there, but I don't think I've ever watched them duel properly. List is gonna be subjective for everyone after all.

One final note regarding top players, duelers, ego, dick stroking, etc... I had a really big ego when I used to duel constantly and hated to lose and thought nothing except about how to destroy my opponents, give no quarter, no mercy, be better, etc. So, now that I don't have that anymore, I can safely say without any ego that the last great, and best, dueler and player of the game, was Beastie. Having played with him constantly I knew the kind of competitive spirit he had, and how I'd never get back to that level again. It was a pleasure seeing a player that reminded me of my golden years of subspace and having had the honor of being in the same squad as him.

Stay frosty you drunken space hookers. Maybe I'll post again in another 6 years.

-Makron

[kemi]

Lovely to see more and more older players post in here from time to time

I think that is definately a good list of the duelling folks ossi, Troi, Sniper and Bjorn are by far the ones of them I have played the most against. And then perhaps Pater Punishment who seemd to frequent that arena quite a lot.

That list also happens to list some of the best players in this game from both the old era and the more modern one.

Beastie was and probably still is one of the very best to ever play this zone, whether it be in duels, 4 vs 4, 6 vs 6, 12 vs 12 or any other way the game could be played. One of the best to play with and most challinging to play against Although you were always more annoying to play against, but that is more about your ship choices compared ot his

Xiver was a quite skilled dueller two and a fine wing for me in league 8 or whenever it was, although we were both vultures

I never duelled Mr. Tinkles, but he will always be one of my first choices if picking a team in DSB

[Tembest]

I so much underline what both of you just said. Though I was always more of the Tinkles type of player mostly fooling around instead of ever playing seriously, mostly emping people to death or feeding kemi. This, instead of caring who was the best or anything like that. But it's also funny to read the lists of best duellers, because the truth is we all struggled against different types of players. ossi e.g. to me, was always easy to deal with, while e.g. sniper_25 surely was a pain in the ass.

However, certainly there was no one who played the game like Beastie, ever. (gyre or whatever his original nick was) He gave it a lot more thought than anyone else really. On average players got smart only at around league 11 or so. Until then, we either had the ratio hunters, or the stupidly suiciding after each ding type of players. Of course, the rules and rewarding for different things changed a lot over the years - originally kills or deaths mattered about 20 % on average in game scoring if I recall correctly. It took years and years before we could even monitor Bell Flags, etc. Prior to that usually the best guys were the ones with close to same number of deaths as there were Dings in the game, yet we always rated the guys with best Ratios the best. Nonetheless, I'm surprised it really took more than 10 years for people to understand the game, thanks to Beastie pretty much, who had about 20 spectators each game learning from him. Having spectated people far more than playing over the years, I can safely tell that the Top 50 of 2008 would have wrecked the Top 50 of 2003 even though the number of players kept declining. It's like comparing footballers of all time. It is only fair to compare within the era they played in. Truth said, any team today would wreck any 50 years old team.

Just my two cents on the game, first dropping in Dec 1996.

[Magnum Size]

I started playing this game in 1999. I have memories reading on forums about a duel tournament lasting for a month. I wanted to participate but it was down to the final 4. It's hard to remember exactly but if I recall the final 4 consisted of Bjorn, APrizedFighter, Butcher & Esidebob. I might be wrong about Esidebob. Might have been Prowler or Epaz instead. Regardless, it's interesting Makron listed 3 out of 4 players from a 1999 duel tournament.

Only other player I can think of that you're missing is Maharazi. Unfortunately his main focus wasn't dueling so not everyone thought of him. Wasn't Travesty22 a great dueler?

[Makron]

Trav was an exceptional dueler, but I wanted to put people on that list that I've faced when I was at my best so I could measure their strength properly. I faced trav when I was still a newb, and while I got my ass handed to me, I don't think I've ever played him when both him and I were at our prime. Pretty sure he dropped off the radar shortly after I started playing, unfortunately. I couldn't think of anyone else that really stood out to me to put in the 9th and 10th spots, so I left it at 8.

Also factoring in the list are era, population, ship settings, server lag, etc etc. Fact is, on an even playing field, with relatively little ping difference, any of those pilots would be savagery to watch in action while they were at their best. Yes, I've included myself in that list like most people like to in their top #s, which is a bit horn-tooting, but quite frankly, I've fucking earned it.

[Ssseth]

Awesome thread.

I’m entirely unqualified in this discussion and very biased but Butcher ftw. Shoutout to eside and Min22 as well.

[Detector]

I know this guy, his name is Makron, we were squadmates from Inducers Squad and won 6v6, aswell as 12v12 DSBL together which was played North+West and South+East then? Its been a while since I played DSB, however I did win every dueler on your list at least once in a duel except Beastie and its been 15+ years since I dueled esidebob, so I dont remember If I won him once in a first to 3 or 5 kills. I want to tell you makky and everyone else who read this that I honestly couldnt care less about who was the best, that was then and this is now. Im not a huge fan of SS anymore. I honestly think the game is dead and old enough.... If anyone wants to ban me from forums for saying that, please do so...however Im not asking you to ban me from here. I could never imagine myself playing SS again, its something I did at age 12 forwards to 23.... i think the game is a bit childish these days and I dont like to even try SS or to even install the game one more time, never again.

[Makron]

Nobody's gonna ban you bro. We're just reminiscing about old times and who's on our top list of players and such. Like I said, it's all gonna be subjective.

My interest in subspace has been done for awhile now, unless a dev team picks up the idea and resurrects the spaceship shooter into another game. Steam was a good effort, and I was really hoping it would boost the population, but the inherent problems of this game were way too much for new players coming in. I'm hoping for a subspace 2 as I love games that are easy to pick up but difficult to master, but I won't hold my breath as it won't be developed without sufficient financial backing and a good team behind it.

[Beastie]

Ty for the kind words, Mak. Although I have to admit, they would have meant so much more 7 years ago ... In retrospect, I value the people I met in this zone. I still have contact with a few of them. But competitively, while it was fun, the game was not worth the amount of effort I put into it.

I never did get a chance to duel any of those earlier guys, you and sniper were the best I ever faced. And while I can take wins off anyone (just like any of those guys you listed) I would never dare say I was the best dueler. Somebody I dont want to name taught me to be humble in the box and it stuck with me forever.. Even if I did become somewhat of a jackass outside of it ...

Its not fresh in my memory anymore but I have to admit, our second championship league on RH was more stressful than fun (at least for me). We were having a rough time early in that league due to roster changes. I told Snoops to let me captain and I would change the situation but he refused, stating "everyone would leave". He wanted to dissolve rather than pass the captainship to me. I guess im that bad. Reaper Man handed it to me (smart man) and 2 weeks later we are back to contendership. Ill never forget the shitstorm on the forums after Sinister joined and Tinkles came back. Hahaha. Oh man. I pretty much had a target on my back after that. The amount of haters I had to deal with until the very end of that league was pretty ridiculous.

After it all ended, coming back from 0-2 in the finals to win. And all the nonse I endured to make it happen...The first thing Snoops says to me is something along the lines of 'you are no longer captain of rh'. I dont care about that, but can you at least preface it with a 'thank you' considering you did nothing but sit in spec being negative the entire season? I left chat and never spoke a word to him again unless he engaged me. He never liked me, and I never liked him, but I at least tried to maintain a level of respect. He is just VERY lucky my goals coincided with his.

I dont wanna ramble on here so I'll make note of some of the best players in MY eyes during the 2 eras in which I played (middle/late). I cant speak on anything prior to dsbl5 and I dont believe anyone really had an intricate understanding of how to play optimally until VERY late in dsb's life...

Kemi
Xiver
Mak
Tinkles

Im not listing anyone who was good in only 1 sector. I believe the true best of the best can win anywhere. Tinkles might not have the records, accolades, etc, that the others have, but when he wanted to win, he was among the best Ive ever seen. He could carry very bad players due to his intelligent play and underrated skills.

I do wonder why the first 2 played lower south. Considering it has the least relative impact on the game out of all sectors. Seems counterintuitive, but whatever.

Im not gonna say anything about myself competitvely because I'll start sounding like floyd mayweather real quick. Sorry if this post looks like trash, typed it out on my phone.

Anyways I gtg, later.

Oh 1 more thing, kemi, you guys dodged a bullet in L13, and the deadliest one of all. I was about to show you the apex.

Since I still like you, part of me is ok that I didnt get the chance.

[kemi]

Which one was L13? It all seems fuzzy to me to be honest

As you said, in the early leagues people just played and had not really optimized the game much yet. I think Xistence was probably the ones who were most agressive playing smart taking the flags into consideration, although unsuccesful. Lower South was for me the most fun in the early years, but it changed as people optimized the gameplan.

In Monistary we often played only 2 in South and later on I did start in Lower South, but usually went East or North quite a lot in order to create scenarios where we outnumbered the enemy and could try and lock the sectors With Bandidos I think I played as much North as I did South, with some East in the mix too. In the late years I think I played East the most though. So shuffling a bit around and more of a floater when assigned to South than anything else

I agree with you regarding Tinkles, one of the best wings you could ask for and severely underrated