I suggest that DSB negotiates to move to TW

[Matioso]

We all know how new skill-less people are treated in pracs,
and we all know what happens to them. Now they would have
an even easier escape. "Nah, I'll just get back to playing what
I did before." However, now it would become also an easier
option for DSB'ers. "Well, it's kind of the same zone so I might
just as well play TW events because it's dead here."

If we moved to TW, do you think even the few people who are
still online, would stay in DSB arenas when they have the
chance of simply switching arena to talk to new people?

Remember that when we give pracs and league the possibility
to grow due to TW players, at the same time we increase the
chances of even the few remaining DSB players moving to TW.

Exactly.

[Entr0py]

I don't buy the "statistics" argument, that just b/c a zone has 200 "players" *cough*bots*cough*, some of them would come play dsb pracs instead of whatever else they're doing. TWers generally find the dsb gameplay boring and/or stupid, and wouldn't bother. Similarly, the ex-dsbers who are in tw are playing tw for a reason. The few who are still interested in praccing already come prac when it's spammed anyways. I'm not convinced that we'd get any more pracs than we already get by moving to tw.

That's why I suggested the test, to see if it works.

Also, I'm not opposed to an objective so much as I don't think it matters in the slightest. I AM open to anyone devving one, though. If you want an objective, make it, and we can try it.

And if you want the head sysop to be any old guy who wants to dev a pub objective, then have fun with falconeer running the show. That's not to say that stepping down is a bad idea.

Ent, do you disagree with this statement?: All successful games have an objective, and all games without an objective would be better if they had one.

Yes, I disagree with that statement.

[wo]

I've put some thought into this, and I suggest we move to TW if we want to effectively kill what's left of dsb.

[jim the chin]

We all know how new skill-less people are treated in pracs,
and we all know what happens to them. Now they would have
an even easier escape.

Some are treated badly, some aren't. I think lately things haven't been too bad for newbs because we're just grateful to have someone who wants to play.

However, now it would become also an easier
option for DSB'ers. "Well, it's kind of the same zone so I might
just as well play TW events because it's dead here."

All it takes is one dsber, one interested person, to start the bot, and it's not "dead here". The message goes out to the whole zone.

If we moved to TW, do you think even the few people who are
still online, would stay in DSB arenas when they have the
chance of simply switching arena to talk to new people?

Who are these people? I don't see anyone in pub... ever. What are you protecting here?

Remember that when we give pracs and league the possibility
to grow due to TW players, at the same time we increase the
chances of even the few remaining DSB players moving to TW.

Well then, let the most fun event win. I think pracs are more fun than tw events/pub, hopefully many people will agree.

Your argument and mine are speculation.

I'm just stunned we have a sysop who thinks a pointless pub works as well as a pub with an objective. If TW-pub removed the flag capture objective I would give up playing it instantly.

Who was it who said Hoch commanded Ent to not change pub? From what I can tell, they were telling the truth.

[Tembest]

Your argument and mine are speculation.

Definitely, no one knows what would happen without any testing.

Even before testing, we should do research. Go to TW and ask how
they feel about DSB, would the play any of our events? Have they
even tried it? Do the old DSB'ers who have moved to TW believe
they would play more DSB games? Which would they prioritise? etc.

There's no point in even starting a test unless we have done even
some background research.

[Pater Punishment]

Nice that this suggestion sparked conversation.

I like the idea of testing, and dislike sudden huge moves without research. As suggested by me, and seconded by Ent and Temb at least, I think we could start with asking if TW could host one arena with our pracbot. I can do this, if someone from the staff (Ent?) agrees to coordinate with TW staff to upload the bot there according to their rules.

Question arose who would then possibly be in charge of DSB development in TW. I think current DSB dev (and other staff) should seek positions in TW and agree to take care of the league, if the idea moves forward. I doubt they (TW) want any excess baggage, so I suspect they would be agreeable to let us handle our stuff.

Also I for one will be asking old DSB players how they would feel about this.

[Entr0py]

Example of a wildly successful game without an objective: Sim City. QED

One possible unintended consequence of having a prac arena in tw is that ALL pracs shift to tw, which would significantly
hurt our population in DSB. I'm not sure it WOULD happen, but it could. What do you think?

[jim the chin]

Isn't the objective of Sim City to build a functioning city that will prevail in hardship and survive disasters? Many games have as their objective something that you build up and improve in order to overcome increasing difficulties (like WoW characters I suppose). DSB is like a soccer match without the goals: you fly (dribble) around the deathstar (pitch), shooting (beating) other players as they try to shoot (tackle) you... but ultimately it's all futile because there is no reason for it.

[kemi]

DSB is already dead, this could a valiant last desperate attempt of revival :/

[Tembest]

Example of a wildly successful game without an objective: Sim City. QED

One possible unintended consequence of having a prac arena in tw is that ALL pracs shift to tw, which would significantly
hurt our population in DSB. I'm not sure it WOULD happen, but it could. What do you think?

Do you mean if we set up a testing arena in TW?
There's the possibility of DSB completely dying even during the
test period only. I don't know how likely that is but it sure is
possible. That would be fine if DSB's operations then started
succesfully in TW but we cannot really if that would happen.

I suggest we do some research and possibly contact TW but do
nothing else before we get some sort of results we can analyse.