League Hall

[Tembest]

That's a whole another thing, if you want players to report their own achievements. I'm not sure I understand the point of such list though. It would give the
names of the players who care about records. Many of the players who should be on the list do not even play anymore.

Without checking much into the statistics. kemi stated he has more mvp's than on the list. Detector stated he has one more. I played in all leagues, and I
used a different nick every single league; even I have more than 13 mvp's. Beastie has more than 13 mvp's. That's just from the top of my head. Come on,
something like league 7 or so Beastie was MVP in east in like 8/12 games, and that's just one league.

I cannot make such change because I do not know how, and I doubt the person who knows how bothers to because the list it not accurate to begin with. It
was a sad attempt to list something meaningless that was done wrongly from the beginning.

Then completely as its own point. I have never understood why on earth do we list MVPs?! The player with most kill points.. come on.. If you're 120-240, the
game still rewards you as the "Most Valuable Player".

But as I said. I have nothing against Detector appearing there. I doubt the people on the list care either because none of them play anymore. I'm just saying
that I would not fix the list only partly because it is not accurate to begin with. What value does such list provide?

Lastly, if it took you as little time as you said, why wouldn't you do it Falc? Perhaps someone can then upload a fully up to date version. I want to see how
you figure out the smurfs from the past 14 years. No !alias or anything else is of any use at that point.

If you want to make the list per nick, then also half of MSD's mvps need to be removed.

[Tembest]

Except it would take you hours or days to go through those. If the list was really up to date, and other smurfs than sunnypsyop had their smurfs included in
the statistics, Dete would not even make the list and most of the current names would drop out.

I thought you had gone through everything from the statistics and made the top10 MVP list right? If you had made it right from the beginning then yes I would have been on that top 10 list, passing martini, Mediz0. and Tomao. I can see you're making those excuses now, why won't you just fix it right instead? What is wrong? Did you miss too many players? I pretty much think not. It feels like I've wasted time on this zones league if someone can't fix the list now. It won't help you to lie.

So that even you understand. I could not care less whether you appear or the list or not. It means absolutely nothing to me. Even I would appear on the list
if I counted all of my nicks. The problem is that they have included smurfs for at least MSD, so if you include smurfs, you should include smurfs of everyone.

Players who clearly, clearly should appear on the list, such as Beastie are nowhere to be seen. So I'm not sure someone wants to put in the effort to make you
happy about adding your name alone there. I know you are probably the only player ever in DSB who cares though... but still. I do not know how to make
the change, so quit crying about some excuses for not doing it???? All I stated to FALC is that it would take a long time to actually fix the list from whoever
wants to do that.

[falconeer]

Everything seems to be, "We can't do it, why dont you do it falc?" Your not the first person to say that to me. Beer has said it, Fly, Eridu, Entropy, Argyle etc. List is endless. If you guys cant even do the most basic things, and you all rely on one man so much, Like he's the only guy on your dev team? Cough cough. Then maybe you should cut the bullshit make me sysop and I will be in a better position to improve things faster around here.

Anyway show me where I can get all the stats, and I'll make you the list. Like I said league.nu has no information about every specific match and I lost the link to frankllrs website. I'll make it by name. We can then be in a position to tie smurf names together. Mostly someone will have to come up and claim they were that smurf, and Beer or someone else can do an alias check and verify it. Otherwise the only other way to tie smurfs together is if it was accepted knowledge for example that beastie and vanish were the same person. At any rate that doesn't really concern me.

[Tembest]

As far as I know, we don't have anything but league.nu

And as I've stated before, you should not consider me as part of the working group of DSB. Beer, Eridu or Fly or anyone else who does anything around has not commented
on the matter. I'm just speculating that I doubt they consider this worth their time. Same rules should apply to them as all other Dev. Dev wants freedom to work on what
they want. Beer, Eridu or Fly should have the same chance.

If you consider this MVP list important, feel free to fix it. Probably no one will be happy about it because the names that would appear there have quit, except for Beastie.
Sadly even Detector would not be on the list if 13 is the real number of his Mvp's.

Fix everything else there as well then. Hold a vote of all the players who should be there. The league hall players have been decided by like 4 people of whom 2 were in SaI.

nokkis, Beer, unzip.rar as one of the best east teams of all time? Seriously?

The league hall is a joke and always has been. All that it provides is a handful of names that should be remembered in the history of DSB, such as butch, eside, kemi,
makron, tricks, etc.

[Beer Hunter]

In all honesty, a lot of names need to be added. Of course we could have made mistakes calculating the stats or amount of mvps. I already told Detector via PM that it's possible that more than one mistake slipped through, the process of calculating the mvps was long and hard - we used material from 4 different sources: league.nu, Frankllr's page, Dozey's website (I think he had one with some records at some point) and lastly the game reports referees sent to yahoogroups designated for that purpose. Obviously it was tricky to get all the material needed, some referees did not send their reports because they couldn't care less or because they had forgotten to start logging when the game started. Now that I think about the "mistake" what Detector is referring to - I do believe the reason behind this inaccuracy is entirely based on the fact that while league.nu stated he was mvp - there was no actual scoresheet or report found, which made the information not as trustworthy as if a scoresheet was found to back the information found on league.nu. I can tell you that there are other slight mistakes - due to inhuman error - in league.nu if you look closely enough. For example at some point in the past, some referees picked a mvp to a game which was forfeit - just look around league.nu to witness that.

The whole league hall idea was that this was only the first addition of players and teams to the hall of fame - it was intended that the progress and updates would continue over the years so that all the players who've achieved this or that may have their names there. Obviously after me and Dakrn did the first batch the process to add more names never happened - it was partly because the interest from the players was low. For the teams and players who are named in the leaguehall for specific sectors, we used a vote where experienced players from dsbl 1-6 voted for best teams - the amount of answers was lower than expected, if I remember right, we asked around 40 players and got around 15-18 answers. The list they voted on was created by the same players if I recall correctly. Tbh I never expected to be on the league hall and was extremely surprised to hear from Dakrn that I had somehow made it to the list with our DSBL5 east team, yes a team - basically the idea with the best teams was to honor those who've played best together as a team during a season(s) rather than look at their individual skills.

This leaguehall we have at the moment is 110% based on the older dsb leagues, basically excluding the leagues 7-12. Which explains why a lot of names are missing. It was more of a paying respect to the older players - the ones who we had already lost - than respecting the current ones. That was supposed to be added in the next upgrade, leagues after DSBL 6.

Obviously if somebody is very very very interested and has a lot of spare time, we can start collecting all the data we can find about league games - including screenshots (of scoresheets), logged scoresheets in text form, somebody can go through the old versions of forums through the archive.org kind of pages - collect everything together, as much data as possible and then calculate everything again. It's a lot of work to get it all done, I can ensure that much.

When adding, removing or editing the leaguehall, one thing to keep in mind is the criteria on why people should get there or why not - it should be decided together obviously.

Last but not least: I think you all, all the players who've made this community what it has been or what it is - should be included in the league hall of fame. We've all spent time playing the game and making it what is was for many years: very enjoyable experience which has lasted for over 15 years now.

[Tembest]

Just give Falcooner a go to update all of this, and create a new website, and a new template for forums. Oh wait, he already has the access to do this all at will.
Well, give Detector a personal trophy for whatever he wants and we are all glad.

[falconeer]

So um FranKllrs Website? Link anyone??

Unfortunately I didn't see many scoresheets on league.nu..

Tembest I asked for specific things I need, in order to do each of those things you listed above. Of which everyone failed to provide me. For the website I requested Entropy's code be e-mailed to me in word document. Like the bare minimum, not even access to the website. It wasn't given. For the forums, I requested access to edit a template, in this case it was tried, but you guys failed to make it work. In the end I decided it's better to change forums altogether and to send the new database over to the new forums. Meaning it's possible to save and move every post. A new forum would provide much more admin abilities and options for editing than this one. If I was in charge I wouldn't hesitate to make that change. For the scores, I'm asking for the data, specifically Frankllrs website, and no one is responding. Probably because the website is gone forever. In each of these cases I need what I need precisely because I am not an elite programmer like Entropy. I can't make a website from scratch and I've already stated this with the forums. I can't code CSS from scratch. What I can do is edit what is already existing, make it work, and make it better. I could potentially build a website using a program, but this would take much more time because I'd have to learn, than say if Entropy did it or if I had his code at least so I could have a start or foundation to work with.

[Detector]

Just give Falcooner a go to update all of this, and create a new website, and a new template for forums. Oh wait, he already has the access to do this all at will.
Well, give Detector a personal trophy for whatever he wants and we are all glad.

I don't need or want a personal trophy. All I asked was if you could update and fix the MVP list in leaguehall, which I found wasn't right.

[Beer Hunter]

Inspired by this, I'll see if I can put up a large portion of DSBL memoriam threads to DSBL forums, on those threads I will try to collect as many scoresheets from the games as possible. I think it's time to look back as well as think about the great times we've had. So far I have about 1/5 of DSBL5 collected and 4/5 of DSBL6. Once I'm done with DSBL5 I will post it and then move on to DSBL6, this thing should be done by March if I have the time required for this (no, not a priority to get this done, many other more important things). The scoresheets can be used to make a database or such if interest for such a thing is present at the time. I will go all the way from DSBL5 to DSBL13 so everything will be collected to one place once and for all, if anybody feels like helping out, let me know.

PS. Not quite sure if I get get EVERY scoresheet from EVERY game as I've noticed some issues with the yahoogroups attachment system, it seems to have lost great portion of the older attachments to the e-mails so some of the scoresheets are not there (it was required for referees to post a match report and include the scoresheet either in the e-mail itself or as an attachment and from 07-08 or so mostly as an attachment, apparently yahoogroups "remembers" attachments from 09- to present day).

[falconeer]

Maybe someone can try contact frankllr or someone else who would have this information also. And get them to send it to you. Maybe entropy can contact fran, in which case tembest should probably ask ent to try at least or something.